Are you wondering how to build a successful business without substantial startup capital? Meet Ben Ayd, Founder of Back and Muscle Solutions and Inventor of QL Claw, who turned his struggle with back pain into a thriving business through strategic decisions about manufacturing and marketing.
The QL Claw isn't just another massage tool - it's an engineered solution that mimics professional massage therapy techniques, designed specifically for the muscles that most commonly cause back pain. What sets it apart is its simplicity and effectiveness, developed through 14 iterations and extensive collaboration with physical therapists and massage therapists.
In this interview, Ben shares his journey from prototype to profitable business, revealing how he bootstrapped his way to success through organic content creation and search engine optimization (SEO), and why choosing US-based manufacturing became a crucial competitive advantage - despite higher costs. If you're looking to launch a product without substantial capital or wondering about the real benefits of US manufacturing, this episode is for you!
In today’s episode of the Harvest Growth Podcast, we’ll cover:
Why organic SEO and content marketing can be a game-changing strategy for startups with limited capital
The hidden advantages of US-based manufacturing in today's market
Regional differences in fundraising and what investors really look for
Why simplicity in product design can be a strategic advantage
Building manufacturer relationships that can save your business during critical moments
And so much more!
You can listen to the full interview on your desktop or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Or, click to watch the full video interview here!
Learn more about the QL Claw and how it can help relieve your back pain at www.backmusclesolutions.com. You'll discover why this simple yet effective tool is becoming a preferred alternative to traditional back pain treatments, and how it's helping people avoid more invasive solutions.
To be a guest on our next podcast, contact us today!
Do you have a brand that you’d like to launch or grow? Do you want help from a partner that has successfully launched hundreds of brands that now total over $2 billion in revenues? Set up a free consultation with us today!
Prefer reading instead of listening? Read the full transcript here!
Jon LaClare [00:00:00]:
SEO or search engine optimization can be inexpensive or even free. And it can be a great way to grow your business as your content that you write or film lives on forever. It's a great addition to paid media. And today's guest shares how it helped to get his business off the ground, but also continues to be the number one revenue driver for his business. We also get into the advantages of manufacturing in the US and how to do it.
Jon LaClare [00:00:45]:
Welcome back to the show. I'm really excited to be speaking with Ben Ayd today. He's the founder and the inventor of the QL Claw. We're going to talk more about what this product is, but it's a fantastic product. I've got a personal story I'm going to share about this, which is it's been really helpful to my family's life as well. But we'll dive into that. We'll talk about what the product is and some really cool business stories along the way. But first of all, Ben want to welcome you to the show.
Ben Ayd [00:01:08]:
Thanks, John. Appreciate the introduction. Happy to be here.
Jon LaClare [00:01:12]:
So let's, I'll let you describe the product. So if you can tell us. First of all, for our audience to say, what is the QL Claw? And maybe how did you come up with the idea?
Ben Ayd [00:01:21]:
Yeah, so it's a, it's a massage tool for back pain. In my humble, biased opinion, the best one on the market. And I created it four years ago as a result, response to my own back pain. So I grew up really active, playing hockey, working manual labor. And from about 18 to 22, I was, I was in and out of clinics all the time. I'm trying to fix my, my back pain. I was PTs, chiropractors, recommended surgery, going to massage therapists, trying my own, spending hours on Google, YouTube trying to find fixes. I couldn't ever really, really get it solved.
Ben Ayd [00:01:54]:
And I was, and I was so young. And the school of thought the treatment I responded best to was actually deep tissue massage, trigger point massage therapy, which is a little bit less popular and a little bit less talked about if you go the traditional back pain route, the pts, the chiropractors, the doctors. So yeah, and I realized there wasn't a great tool on the market, designed for the lower back specifically and did a lot of research on my own. I'm actually an engineer by background. Started making prototypes, 3D printing them in a lab for about six months, tested them with physical therapists, massage therapists. Had a lot of meetings, just laying on the thing on our, on our backs and clinics which were, which were awesome. And yeah, about nine to 10 months later, I figured out manufacturing and decided to launch the business.
Jon LaClare [00:02:40]:
I think you mentioned you went. You went through like 14 different iterations of the product when you were 3D printing it and working with physical therapists. Have you changed it at all since then? So once you launch and got it perfected now it's been since 2021. Have you made any changes to the design or is it pretty much you got it perfect and it's stayed that way?
Ben Ayd [00:02:58]:
Yeah, thankfully there's only been one change since. But you're right, it took me about 14 or so iterations because when I, the first one I designed, I threw a CAD model together and I just took a guess. I knew what the tool had to do and function, but I would, I had no idea how it would feel to actually, to use on my body or to test or to actually like hit the areas we wanted to sort. Yeah, it took a lot of trial and error, a lot of, A lot of iterations, a lot of going to a pt, a massage therapist. They told me to tweak this dimension, put this here, move this. And yeah, after a lot of those, which as an engineer, that was just a blast for me. Yeah, we're. We're settled now.
Ben Ayd [00:03:38]:
And then the one change we made was kind of just hollowing out the design. It was. And that was more of a business manufacturing cost decision than. Than a utility function, thankfully, because we did file our utility patent back then. So I was a little bit hesitant to make any changes because if anything was too drastic that our claims might not hold anymore. But yeah, that's how, that's how this came together.
Jon LaClare [00:04:01]:
Awesome. Well, it is a great product. I was mentioning to you that our son has used it. I've used it myself as well. But he particularly was going through some back pain. We didn't even know about it. Where he was starting to walk a little funny. And my wife and I are on, on a trip with them and walking behind him like, what is, what's, what's he doing? Like is.
Jon LaClare [00:04:19]:
He always walked like this. I just never noticed. He's like, he's 16. And anyways, we. So I asked him about It. And he was, you know, kind of bothered. He's like, oh, you know, try not to admit what was going on or whatever. Right.
Jon LaClare [00:04:29]:
Like. But he's like, it's just back pain. He's. I don't know what caused it, but he was going through back pain for a few weeks and it was making him walk different. Like, he had to land on his toe on one of his feet and just looked really awkward. So you had just sent this to me a little bit prior to that, I think a couple weeks or something like that. And again, I didn't even know he was going through that back pain. So I'd used it for just kind of playing around with it.
Jon LaClare [00:04:49]:
I wasn't. Didn't have any acute issues at the time, but, man, for him, it was a game changer. It was awesome for him to be able to use this. And it took a little while. Right. It's not. Nothing is instantaneous, but using kind of a routine, following the instructions that come along with it, where his back pain eventually went away and it's, you know, he's kind of manageable back to normal now. I don't.
Jon LaClare [00:05:10]:
Again, I don't know what caused it. If it comes back, I'm glad we have the Ql to play around with and. And get him off. I'm sure, you know, we all get back pain occasionally here and there, but, man, it was a life changer for so great design and really helped out him. And I'm. I'm really grateful for it, personally. Can you describe. You know, not everyone obviously is seeing this or listening via audio, but maybe describe how it works.
Jon LaClare [00:05:31]:
There's kind of two raised areas and what the. What the design does that's so different from other back pain products.
Ben Ayd [00:05:38]:
Yeah. So. And thanks for sharing that story. That's. I mean, that just warms my heart, keeps me motivated to keep going. But yeah, so the tool is extremely simple. I wanted it. And that was intentional.
Ben Ayd [00:05:50]:
I wanted to make this just as blunt and simple as possible. Because, I mean, if you look at the trend of most products, most tools out there, they're getting more complex. They're building apps, they're building circuit boards, they're putting Bluetooths into things that really don't need it. So I was kind of. I kind of went the other direction completely. So we say it's rugged, simple, really just easy to use and simple like I said three times. But yeah. So the tool, it's essentially just a knuckle or an elbow designed to mimic the knuckle or elbow or thumbs of a physical or massage therapist.
Ben Ayd [00:06:20]:
And the other side of it is just a shelf, a ramp to hold your body weight, to push your center of gravity into the knuckle or elbow. And what's cool about this and what we designed it for, is to hit the exact areas of the body, of the lower back, the glutes, the hip flexors, the areas that predictably and consistently get tight, hold tension, and cause lower back pain in people. In most people. And what most folks don't know is back pain often isn't phantom or a mystery. It's predictable. And massage therapists, physical therapists, they go at it systematically. They go to the same muscles. They know the names.
Ben Ayd [00:06:54]:
They have names. Quadratus, lumborum, glute, medius, psoas, iliacus. These are the names of real muscles that cause pain in most people. And we just designed a tool to allow people to do it at home without having to go to a clinic three, four times a week and getting the relief that they need.
Jon LaClare [00:07:11]:
And I imagine part of it, like if, if somebody is going to a massage therapist again, you just can't go every day, right? But you can start to pay attention to where, where they're working, right? So where they're putting their knuckles, where the, where the pain is, is sourced, or what's, what's helping the cause, and just kind of repeat that at home. Is that one of the common recommendations you make?
Ben Ayd [00:07:30]:
Oh, totally. Yeah. There's especially people that are more, more educated, more proactive that they want to know. They'll ask their massage therapist, like, what are you doing? What's this muscle called? What are you working on? They say, oh, it's psoas and iliacus, hip flexors in the front. And then a lot of them will go home, find a tool like ours and get it. Some people, which I love, actually bring the tool to massage therapists, physical therapist they're working with. They say, hey, can you help me hit this muscle? I want to know what it feels like. I want to be able to do this on my own because.
Ben Ayd [00:07:57]:
Yeah. And especially people who have had pain for years, decades, there's just. And a lot of massage therapists have told me this and will confirm once a week just isn't enough. A lot of times you need more volume, more repetition, more just busting up that rigid, angry, tense muscle tissue that's been locked up, spasmed for 10, 15 years in a lot of people, once a week just isn't going to do it. So this tool allows you to do twice a day, five, ten, some people even 15 times a week, getting that massage in, getting that work to actually build like a lasting relief and get that compounding effect.
Jon LaClare [00:08:35]:
So in the early days of the business, I know you started out without a lot of investors or money in the business and kind of had to make it happen. Right. In a lot of ways. How did you, you know, you and I were talking before about how SEO organic, right. Without doing paid media. In the very early days, it started to take off and it still generates a good portion of your revenues. How did you do that? Because you started off. There are certainly SEO or search engine optimization agencies that can help.
Jon LaClare [00:09:01]:
And some of them are very good. Right. But often they're very expensive as well along the way. And in the early days of a business that may not be possible or even late stage if someone wants to expand into organic but just, you know, doesn't want to make the investment or whatever. What did you do? What worked well for you? I guess, what were some learnings along the way that you could share with listeners that they might be able to apply into their own business?
Ben Ayd [00:09:23]:
Yeah, happy to. Well, when I started, you're right, I didn't have any money, but I had a lot of time. And building those organic funnels, it's, it's a, it's just a lot of work. Like, like anybody can do it, anyone can learn it. Obviously there's some agencies that do great work, but for me, that's not something I could reasonably afford. And, and, and I wanted to build something that was compounding. I didn't want to build an ad or hire an influencer to just get a sale once I wanted to, to create content or create an article or create a funnel that would last for months and years to come. So there were two reasons for it.
Ben Ayd [00:10:00]:
One, didn't have any money writing articles, creating videos was free. And two, it compounds and it lives on more than just a blip in an Instagram reel ad. And then kind of learning that, I mean, there are some resources. I learned a tool called Ahrefs was extremely helpful. They have a lot of great tutorials. That's probably how I, how I got most of it off the ground. But before anyone does this, I would take an honest look at kind of your lifestyle and if you have the time to budget for this, because it probably took me, I was probably spending three hours a day before my day job at the time when I was getting this off the ground, probably three hours a day creating video and written content. For probably a year and a half before it really started to catch and pick up.
Ben Ayd [00:10:51]:
And that's just a huge mountain of work. So I would take an honest look at your lifestyle. If you were younger like I was, that's a skill that's going to pay off the rest of your career. But if you have more money, maybe a little bit older, I don't even know if I would recommend it. I probably wouldn't do it again. Just from where I'm at now, I don't really need to do it again. But yeah, if you're young, you're starting out, you have time, but you don't have money. I mean, I would really recommend just diving into video and written content because that's how you can start to get your first traffic, your traction, your first sales.
Ben Ayd [00:11:23]:
And it still is our biggest marketing channel today. It's where most of our revenue comes from. And some of those. And some of those videos and articles that bring in sales are ones I wrote in 2021. So yeah, it definitely can pay dividends for a long time in the future.
Jon LaClare [00:11:40]:
And it can be slow. You know, we always talk about SEO is like, hey, this is not something like I'm going to write an article and we're going to get sales tomorrow. That's where it's different from paid media. But you can get sales five years down the road. Not, you know, not only then, right. But for a period of years that that can. Can really live on. And honestly, you'll get more links to it.
Jon LaClare [00:12:00]:
A successful piece. Not every piece of content is going to be the best, right? Or going to be go viral or whatever it might be. But writing a lot of content, you get a handful that really start to go to other websites. They get links, et cetera. And you know, you start to build up and it just gets better, as you mentioned, compounds, right? It gets better and better over time. And I think one of the things you said about is you have to do a lifestyle assessment of yourself. A do you have the time also the interest, right? So not everyone likes to write or be on video, record video. There's a lot of different ways to accomplish it.
Jon LaClare [00:12:31]:
We don't need to dive into great detail on all the approaches of SEO during this interview, but there's a lot of ways to do it where, you know, if you're not a writer, you don't like doing videos. You can hire writers, you can use AI. You know, I don't want to like end with AI, right. But to get thought starters going, then re Edit and you know, get some ideas, that sort of thing. But also, you know, relatively inexpensive copywriters can be found on websites like fiverr.com and things like that where you can, you don't have to have a crazy expensive agency. Again, if, if resources are an issue, there's again, these agencies exist. We don't really do SEO in our agency, but they, they exist for a reason. They are, you know, some are very good and they can help grow a business, but you can also do some of it on your own.
Jon LaClare [00:13:13]:
So. But you said it's a lot, it can be a lot of time. So let's talk about money raising too. So you have, you and I were having a conversation before about some learnings you've had in the fundraising process. Right. So so far a lot of your business growth, and it's been a very successful business over these past few years has been started with organic, as you said, rather than funneling that into some paid media and really starting to catapult that growth forward. But, but along the way you started the approach to some different potential investors and you certain interesting learning. So let's, let's talk about that a little bit.
Jon LaClare [00:13:48]:
So talk about the process. What did you learn from the process of starting to raise funds for your business?
Ben Ayd [00:13:55]:
Oh yeah, I could share a lot about that and there's a whole other business venture that I won't even go into. But it depends on the kind of money you're trying to raise and how much. And one thing I learned very quickly is it also really matters where you are in the country. So I kind of raised in three different markets, Chicago, Minneapolis and San Francisco. They're kind of the three that I tapped into when I was looking at it for this business and the other one. And depending on where you are, it matters so much. I would say Chicago is the most grounded kind of middle. Minneapolis is a little bit harder and San Francisco is the, I mean that's the, they're the, they spend the most in VC in the world.
Ben Ayd [00:14:35]:
But yeah. And so your valuations and the ease and type of money you're going to get is going to vary drastically depending on where you are. Like just for a quick story on that, when I was first starting to fundraise for this business, I didn't really know how much I needed. I thought just 250 grand. Like, I don't know, just a small kind of seed. And I talked to a VC in San Francisco and he told me that he doesn't know anyone who writes checks that small. So like, that was kind of a wake up call. I'm like, wow, like, what, what kind of rounds are you guys leading? And I mean, it's, it's rare that they're going to participate in a round under two or even three at some, at some firms.
Ben Ayd [00:15:12]:
And then the Chicago market a little bit more level. Most people are raising at 1.2 right now. And then Minneapolis, where I live now, is a little bit less. But yeah, a couple, couple takeaways, Couple things I've learned if you're, if you're fundraising right now. One, like just investors are sheep. They, they, they're, they ignore you, they don't give you the time of day, they won't let you talk to their partners until you start to get commitments, investments. And then they're like, oh, hey, welcome back. And then you're kind of like, where were you when I needed you? We just almost closed our round.
Ben Ayd [00:15:49]:
So it's a big game of trying to create FOMO and create momentum and kind of putting on a show and a dance that, to be honest, some people enjoy, some people don't. But yeah, like, I have one, one good, two friends who are, they're the youngest people. They raised the biggest seed round in Chicago history at about 7.4 million. And they just gathered a hype train. They, they got into a program in San Francisco where they had some big names involved. And as soon as they got on that radar, they had everybody knocking on their doors. And before that they couldn't, like, they couldn't pay an investor to get a lunch with them. So it's, yeah, I would say be very mindful of where you are in the country and if you're in a small town or a small market, like it honestly might be, if this is really important to you and you want, and you have a big vision and big dreams, like getting around people also with big visions, big dreams and a bigger city, like seriously could give you a, not just like a 20% better chance, but like a 10x better chance of raising a serious round.
Jon LaClare [00:16:59]:
During that process, I've talked to a lot of people that have raised money or at least gone through the process. You can learn a lot from these investors. They see a lot of businesses, right. And if you're approaching, especially if you're approaching investors that work a lot in your particular field, you know, they, they might have bigger vision just because they see what's going on outside of your business. We get so pigeonholed in what we're doing. Were there learnings that you Got along the way even from these meetings, whether or not they actually put funds into the business that were helpful.
Ben Ayd [00:17:26]:
Oh yeah. I mean the, especially from the angels, just the high net worth individuals that aren't with like a formal venture capital fund, they care so much more about who you are and the relationships than they do about your business. Like I was with this one guy who they just, they had a big exit sold for 300 million. I don't know what his stake in it was, but I imagine he's like, he's fine. When we sat down for lunch with him, he asked no questions about the business. I sat down and he started feeling my bicep and he's like, oh, you said you're a hockey player, huh? He just wanted to get to know me that way. He just wanted to work with people that he liked and he knew if I'm going to jump in the foxhole with a team, I want to make sure these are people that I want in my corner and that I want to work with and that I want to see succeed. So especially when you go to the angels, the high net worth individuals.
Ben Ayd [00:18:14]:
Yeah, just so much more about the relationships, the personality, like them liking you and them wanting to see you win was just so much more important than frankly like the actual product or the business. Because they know that that's going to change 10 times. Like the product and business that you put in front of them today is not going to be the product or business that is going to even be there in two, three years. So yeah, that was one thing that I thought was pretty interesting is just how much more they're interested in you, the personal, the soft side, than the actual product and business.
Jon LaClare [00:18:46]:
And it's, you know, it's. I think it's a fair way to think about it too. If you put yourself in the investor's shoes, a good person with a mediocre idea can turn it into a success, right? A bad person, however you want to define that, right. With a good idea can still tank the business, right. There's so many levers to pull in a business to make it into a success that who's behind the wheel, getting to know that person makes all the difference. And whether you're raising money, whether you're meeting with a buyer, right? Selling a product into a major retail chain, whatever it might be, right? Getting that relationship can, can really make a huge difference along the way to drive to your success. So also you made a decision early on in the process. I think in the beginning, if I remember right to manufacture in the U.S.
Jon LaClare [00:19:27]:
have you always manufactured in the U.S. is that correct?
Ben Ayd [00:19:29]:
Yes, we have.
Jon LaClare [00:19:31]:
And that's not an easy thing to do. Some people start there and then go overseas because they want to grab more margin. I think they can or whatever. So it's, it's hard or, but maybe it's not as hard as people think. Let's, let's talk about that way. So we all go into it thinking, oh, it's impossible. There's no way I can, I can create my product, manufacture it here in the US but you've done it successfully and I'd love to have you share part of that story or how did you do it? And what difference has that made for your business? The fact that you've made you focused on manufacturing in the U.S. yeah, I.
Ben Ayd [00:20:03]:
Can share about that. The. We're on our second manufacturer. Our first one was out of Michigan. Our current one is out in Nevada and I love them. And when I, when we were moving to our second one, I did look overseas, so I did get some quotes from Taiwan. So I, I do have an idea of kind of what we would have saved going that route, but I can just share a couple stories for a pitch for staying in the States because the communication, the, the amount of times they've bailed us out for missing projections miscalculating, like how much inventory we need, like, is. They've probably done it 10, 12 times now.
Ben Ayd [00:20:35]:
Like, like last holiday season, I drastically underestimated how much we were going to sell. Like, if you're, if you're an online brand, you know that Q4, November, December is just the best time of year sales, if you don't change anything, sales will often just double in November and December, even if they're, they're plateaued in August, September, October leading up to it. And, and that happened and we weren't prepared at all. So we had a ton of backorders right before Christmas and we had no inventory. I highly miscalculated what we would need and when. And I mean, I was able to call this guy and say, hey, like, we have our back. Orders are just climbing by the day. Like, I know that we're not supposed to get the ship for another couple of weeks.
Ben Ayd [00:21:15]:
What can you do for me? And he was able to move his schedule around, have his, his staff like work different hours and, and actually ship me partials. So we had I think 800 units that was supposed to get shipped by a pallet. And that takes like a week or two to, to print just because of our process and our manufacturer. And so as they were coming off the press and getting cleaned, we were, we were actually shipping packages of 25, 40 and, and we were next day airing them just for the, like the customers that had reached out. They're like, hey, we really need this for Christmas. That we just wanted to make happy. So I remember probably the worst financial on paper decision for shipping I've ever made. I think we paid like 970 bucks to ship like 30 of these, which is like 35 bucks a unit.
Ben Ayd [00:22:04]:
Destroyed our margin, but we saved a lot of sales that way. And that type of relationship just, I mean I haven't, I haven't actually like done overseas, but I imagine that's really hard to find and the amount of times he's bailed this out because when you're starting out, if you don't have a big lump of money where you can buy 6 months, 12 months of inventory today, which we couldn't being able to be flexible on, on your, your projections because you're going to miss low, you're going to miss high, things are going to move all the time. And yeah, him being able to work with us on that has been amazing. And, and we, we love our rep. It's the same guy who I've, I've been working with the whole time here. We actually, he's a golfer and we just sent him a box of Pro V1X's and he was just pumped. So like that's the type of relationship that I want in a manufacturer. And I don't know if I would get overseas.
Ben Ayd [00:22:52]:
And just one more thing I'd say on overseas, the lead times, because we were, we were looking during COVID were, were horrible. They were, they were about three months to getting off the press and then another question mark, number of weeks to ship across the ocean. So we were looking at like a vague three to six months as a lead time. And in the States we were able to get like four to six weeks, which was way more favorable for us. Not like I just told you, our projections were extremely hard to calculate and I was just not good at predicting them still. I still miss often, but it's so nice being able to actually work with them on that, even if we're paying a little bit of a, a premium for it.
Jon LaClare [00:23:35]:
Yeah, and these are great points and it's, you know, even if you think about the relationship, even if you are able to build up a relationship, which is very hard, a lot of our clients do manufacture overseas and I, I'm Trying to think back, if I've ever heard one say, I've got a great relationship sometimes, right? There's to some extent, but there's that distance you just can't really overcome, right. But even in the best world, if you've got a great relationship and there are of course good people overseas as well, that lead time, you can't overcome that, right. You're not going to have a good relationship with the freight boat, you know, the boat coming across. You're not gonna have a good relationship with the customs office that it can keep your product tied up for sometimes weeks. Right. Covid was a nightmare in terms of shipment delays, etc, but that, but it's always been slower, right? Even as that's gotten better, you know, it's almost gone. I guess the effect of like what that initial slowdown was. The shipping lanes are generally pretty good, but it's just, it's a slow process, right.
Jon LaClare [00:24:26]:
And you have the choice to fly them over. But now you've lost all your margin benefit, right, by. By doing that and actually losing money along the way. So, yeah, if possible, not can be made successfully right now in the States for various reasons, right. If there's not the technology to do it or factories built up for it or whatever, but if possible, there's a lot of benefits to. To do it. And a lot of like molded type products can be very well done here in the States if, if possible. So you and I were chatting too about.
Jon LaClare [00:24:54]:
About resources. I always ask the question at the end. I love to get things that, you know, any resources in your life that are helpful to you, that you'd like to share with our audience. So what has been helpful to you as you think back, about books and videos and whatever it might be that's been mostly most helpful?
Ben Ayd [00:25:10]:
Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm going to answer that in a way that I hope nobody else has before because I've read a lot of books, listen to a lot of people, a lot of podcasts, but honestly, what's helped the most is Proverbs in the Bible, the Book of wisdom. It's 31 chapters. It's great to read, like for each day of the month, one chapter per day according to the day of the month. And I mean, the wisdom and the lessons in there are the richest, the truest, the most solid foundation, not only in just in navigating life, relationships, the world, everything, but in terms of just business principles too. So. Yeah, and there's one that just comes to mind. 14:23 in all labor, there's profit.
Ben Ayd [00:25:55]:
And that was extremely relevant where the first year of this business, when I was just doing all the organic SEO, laying a foundation work, you didn't see a monetary profit. But the Bible says in all labor there's profit. Not monetary or financial profit always, but the work works on you in other ways. So there's benefit in all work, essentially. And I saw that in laying a foundation that wasn't visible and building the character traits, the discipline, just the knowledge, just being able to like totally wrap my head around an organic funnel, like really learning and mastering what that was, were was kind of the quote profit that you could say that I was, I was gaining at that time. That wasn't visible because as you know this, to get anything off the ground, you, you push the rock. You push the rock. You push the rock and it moves an inch.
Ben Ayd [00:26:43]:
And then, I mean, being three years in Alec, if I put the same amount of work in, it's so much more visible. And so like you, you can see it, like, you can see it take off very quickly. But in those early days, some quotes like that. And I would encourage everyone to kind of just dive into that book because I think it's the wisest book and even the wisest section of the Bible written by the wisest guy. Solomon. Yeah. So I hope that's helpful for you.
Jon LaClare [00:27:11]:
Yeah, no, it's great. It's funny. I just read. Funny is the right word. But I read a stat recently. I think this past year they've had more sales of the Bible than in any other year ever. Whatever, like sales were up for whatever reason. There could be a lot going into that, I don't know.
Jon LaClare [00:27:23]:
But a great book and it's been a long time since I've read specifically from Proverbs I love. You know, I can think back the one you mentioned, you know, it's familiar to me, but it's been a while and it's. That's a good reminder. There's so much wisdom in there. It's a, it's a good book within the Bible to open up and, and proves. I like the idea of reading. Is it you said there's 30 chapters in total or 31. That's perfect for a month.
Ben Ayd [00:27:47]:
Yeah. So just going with the days of the month, doing a chapter a day, I think I went through it like seven or eight times and 20, 22 or 20. Sorry, 2023. And yeah, it's just whether you're, you're navigating a, a manufacturing deal, you've Got an angry customer, you've got a partner that wants to deal. It seems like there's an answer to, to seriously everything in there and it's, I'm blown away every time. I mean I have all the, the books as well, the modern self help everything, the business books but I've yet to find anything rival the 3000 year old proverbs.
Jon LaClare [00:28:20]:
I'm going to crack mine open tonight. I never made the connection with the 31. I knew it was roughly that. Right. But it's made the connection with the number of days in a month. It's a great idea. So I'll check that out. Thank you.
Jon LaClare [00:28:30]:
Is there anything else that Ben didn't ask you that you think could be helpful for our audience?
Ben Ayd [00:28:35]:
No. I mean everybody has back pain, so come check us out before you try a potentially permanent fusion or spinal surgery or any drastic measure. Try our non invasive treatments first or if you spun your wheels at clinics forever, you feel like you've tried it all. I mean that was me. I was bouncing around clinics, PTs, chiropractors, getting adjusted twice a week and just never got anything lasting. So give us a shot. BackMuscleSolutions.com, QL Claw is our product and John, you may be about to make the same shout out but yeah, that's what I have.
Jon LaClare [00:29:07]:
Yeah, I do encourage our audience. Like I said from a personal experience, it's been a game changer for my son and with minor back pain I've had since we first met, it's really helped with that as well. So I couldn't, couldn't agree more. With the encouragement to definitely check out the website back musclesolutions with ansontheend.com it's in the shownotes if you're driving as always, you can go check it out. Also, did you know you can meet with a member of my team absolutely free for a 30 minute strategy consultation? We've launched and grown hundreds of products since 2007 and learned some of our strategies while growing OxiClean back in the Billy Mays days. We're here to help so please go to harvestgrowth.com and set up a call if you'd like to discuss further.
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